Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

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Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby digitaltoast » 10 May 2009 13:20

Things have changed since I was there...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berk ... 040881.stm

A primary school has sent letters of reassurance to parents after a nine-year-old boy threatened a classmate with a knife.
The boy brought the weapon to Alfred Sutton Primary School in Reading, Berkshire, on 3 April, police said.
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby Les » 10 May 2009 15:28

What, like you wouldn't have bothered with the preliminary of threatening? :whistle1:
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby Emily-O » 11 May 2009 09:23

Aged 9?! That is probably one of the most shocking so far!
I have only really heard of such incidents in America though.. Not Reading :?

So far this year:
A 12-year-old boy has been found guilty of murder after shooting his mother following an argument over chores

Police say a 4-year-old boy shot his babysitter Sunday because the 17-year-old stepped on his foot.


And I wonder where all these children learn the behaviour.................. and rather scarily how to use a gun!
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby Les » 11 May 2009 10:21

You are right Emily, it is shocking, and you really have to wonder about those other incidents which you mention.
But, let us not forget the staff of the school right now who are having to deal with the reverberations of this incident at Alfed Sutton. Will it mean that the children will have to pass through metal detectors as they arrive and leave the school? That is a dreadful thought but then if it meant that it would lead to a safer environment I suppose that it would have to be accepted. Personally I think that the parents are the key workers in this. It is their responsibility to educate their children that carrying any sort of weapon is just not acceptable, nor is any other sort of violence.
Society as a whole urgently needs to address these issues. We could all argue for months about the root cause of the breakdown of responsibility, but I fear that the roots of the problems now go very deep indeed.
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby OLDMAN » 12 May 2009 08:36

Oh how times change - when I went to Sutton (primary and boys) if you did wrong you got something that now seems to have died, or has been pushed out

It was called PUNISHMENT!

If we did wrong the levels went: Lines, Detention, Slipper, Cane, or a combination of more than one of them.

And yes it was a deterrent.

If you did wrong out of school it was the police (with a clipped ear) then home to a good telling off / smacking.
If you did do wrong and thought you got away with it, you did tend to s**t bricks for a few days / weeks until it died off!


The real problem is the minority of do-gooders, the insipid government who go along with them and this nanny state we live in, its why the schools have their hands tied to a level!

Bring back some decent punishments and deterrent and it may just change, generally works in other 'European' countries, plus in others around the world!
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby digitaltoast » 12 May 2009 09:42

OLDMAN wrote:Oh how times change - when I went to Sutton (primary and boys) if you did wrong you got something that now seems to have died, or has been pushed out

It was called PUNISHMENT!
Here here! And you can draw a line that correlates neatly between lack of parental discipline, and the increase takes a sharp turn upwards right around 2005:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4175905.stm

You see, a lot of people wrongly think that was a ban on smacking, and so don't smack their children. And the ones that want a total smacking ban are so inanely moronic...I heard some prat on Woman's Hour about 2 weeks ago (I was listening by accident, OK?!) who couldn't see the difference between mild disciplinary smacking and beating the crap out of kids like on the advert.

As we're talking about Alfred Sutton, one of my earlier memories happened outside AS Primary. Some kid ran straight into the road, and was clipped by (of all things) a Reliant Robin! Because it only brushed him due to some sharp braking/swerving, he thought all the hysteria from parents around was funny, and ran back giggling. His mum has his trousers down there and then and gave him several hard smacks to the backside!
I'd guess he was about 3 or 4.
That was it, nothing else was said. Now let's look at two scenarios:
The child was one second and a skilled driver/luck away from either death or serious injury. He thought the near miss was a joke.

The result of an instant smack was that he knows this action of running into the road actually results in pain.
The result of no smacking is that he might think its a joke. And don't give me this "you sit down later and talk to them gently" nonsense. Anyone who's read any books about child psychology or met a 3 year old know that doesn't work.

So, onto violent children:
Young children are, essentially, animals rapidly developing into humans. When a horse is young, if it tries to nip you, you hit it (not around the head, and you DON'T beat it or use violence) but you let it know that's not to be done. Otherwise, you end up with a useless and dangerous horse.

Some undisciplined children will quickly develop the emotional intelligence to make judgements on how things work around them, but some will just see a "getting away with it" culture. I did plumbing at TVU, which meant that 2/3 of the people around me had done time, and they see prison and the police as a joke. They don't care. They know their rights but not responsibilities. Fail them in a test? You're a racist! (Or "your a rascist" as they'd put it!)

We need a change of government and a change of culture, fast. Bobbies back on the beat, playstations out of the bedroom and mobiles out of the classroom. And if that sounds a bit Conservative, then what the heck, it's coming in a year or so, so if you don't like it, tough :)
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby OLDMAN » 12 May 2009 10:58

Well put digi, I won't add your bit as quote to keep it simple but..

One thing missed is the fact that these kids and their parents know 'exactly' what they can get away with and how to use (or abuse) the system.

My brother has good examples of this, his kid was being bullied at school and the perpetrator was responsible for running a gang, bullying other kids plus causing other trouble.

The real problems came when anyone complained, as soon as this girls parents got involved they would turn up at the school, shouting, swearing, threatening legal action and claiming counter incidents that did not exist, etc - no racism though, as they where all white, although a coloured teacher got accused of it along the way!

The school would then kowtow to them for an easy life; this would then backfire as the girl just get worse.

The police got involved as the girl and her parents actually threatened other kids by phone, text and e-mail and onetime turned up outside one kids house, knowing the parents had just gone out, and threatened physical harm, all witnessed -

But the same happened when reported, the police said they did not have enough evidence and it was just childish behaviour, and this was all because the parents kicked up threatening legal action again!!


The teachers and the police where all scared what would happen!!

It only got sorted once my brother and a few other parents went to the schools governors with a solicitor and threatened legal action.
Even then the head teacher did not want to get involved and left it to the local, school controlling officer!!

And this is just one example - bring on the revolution!!
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Re: Alfred Sutton Primary knife incident

Postby Les » 12 May 2009 11:05

It reminds me of an American Family I come across about once a year. There is a very well padded father,a mother who think that the rest of the world should fall down and worship her, and a male child who is the ultimate horror. He, having vandalised the games room by poking a snooker cue through the plaster borad walls, was addressed by his father thus. "Now then Andrew, that was not a good thing to do. We will have to discuss your behaviour". And that was it. The games room remained closed for the rest of the week thus depriving everyone else of the chance of using it. I can tell you that there were many itching hands among the rest of the folks there. The pratt Andrew had become a gotth the last time that I saw him.
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